Hi all,
Welcome to Art's Enigma - my new blog! I've never done a blog before so excuse any mistakes, at least until I get my bearings on things. Feel free to discuss whatever comes to mind, although I plan to discuss the subject of Mormonism a lot, though I'm sure that politics and other topics will also creep in from time to time.
Art
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Hi Art,
ReplyDeleteWelcome to blogging! I'm looking forward to some of your articles.
Loren Bishop
I'll be watching!
ReplyDeleteDale
Hi Loren,
ReplyDeleteWhy don't we start off with an event I just attended and go from there. Last Friday I once again attended the Annual Ex-Mormon Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah, and had a terrific time. The presenters were perhaps the best I've seen yet (since I presented there two years ago :-)), in spite of the fact that attendance was down from last year. It was also the busiest I've been so far, between meeting with new colleagues, talking with old "exmo" friends, videotaping a session that ran concurrently with another one, and also two very personally gratifying conversations with some folks I've known for awhile.
One of the highlights was the presentation by Craig Criddle on his research into various word patterns and phrases that were common to both the Book of Mormon and known samples of Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdery, Joseph Smith, Pratt, and Solomon Spalding, the man whom we believe, based on over 30 years of research, wrote the basis for the Book of Mormon.
I guess at this point I may need to answer a few questions, starting with who I am. My name is Art Vanick and I am one of three co-authors who wrote "Who Really Wrote the Book of Mormon? - The Spalding Enigma", published by Concordia Publishing House in 2005. It is the second of two books in which I participated with my two co-authors, the first book being published in 1977 with the help of Dr. Walter Martin. I did some of the research for the 1977 book but was not one of the authors. Now for the next question: who was Solomon Spalding and how was he connected with the Book of Mormon?
Solomon was a down and out retired Congregationalist minister who toward the end of his life turned to writing with the hopes of providing a financial legacy for his poor family. He made two attempts at least two attempts at writing - Manuscript Story, which he ended abruptly, and Manuscript Found, which he submitted to several publishers and which finally found acceptance by the Patterson Print Shop. The book was mediocre, however, and so Spalding was required to raise the necessary amount of money to cover the printing cost, which he attempted to do but died before he was able to do it, so the manuscript lay in the print shop. This brings us to the next question - what does Spalding have to do with the Book of Mormon?
The Spalding manuscript was taken or otherwise acquired by a man named Sidney Rigdon, who was said by many to have frequented the print shop where Spalding's manuscript was located. At some time after he got the manuscript, he met with Oliver Cowdery and his cousin, Joseph Smith, and the three of them over a period of about three years edited and otherwise rewrote Spalding's manuscript and turned it into what is now known as the Book of Mormon.
The next question is how old is the Spalding-Rigdon theory? The answer is older than the Book of Mormon itself, and possibly goes back to a accusation that was attributed to Spalding and his wife, who supposedly accused Sidney Rigdon of taking Manuscript Found as early as 1814.
In any case, it is quite probably the oldest and definitely tne most severely attacked of all of the non-Mormon theories for the origin of the Book of Mormon. I say this because it has not only been attacked by Mormons but also by non-Mormons and also various "Smith-only" Christian groups who insist that Smith had to have written the Book of Mormon.
Our book, all 562 pages of it, attempts to solve the Spalding Enigma from a historical perspective. It's basically a historical "whodunnit" where we attempt to show via as much evidence as possible, how the principals in the story get together and do what we claim they do.
We have been joined in recent times by others who have gone at the same problem from other viewpoints, like Tom Donofrio and Craig Criddle, whose presentation at the 2009 exmo conference has elevated the Spalding claims several notches, as had Tom's.
Well, that's about it for now. It's Friday and that means "pizza and movie night" at my household. Join in as the spirit moves.
Art
Art, this would get more exposure as a blog entry rather than a comment. It's an excellent summary and will get lost, unless folks make a point to read the comments as well as the posts.
ReplyDeleteHi everyone,
ReplyDeleteIn case you're having trouble posting to the blog, I'm going to give you some tips. First create your comment. when you're done, then select your profile by hitting the "Select profile" drop down menu next to the "Comment as" text. If you have selected the "anonymous" option, then hit the "Preview" button and it will then take you to a preview window and below the preview there will be a space where you will be requested to type in the word or phrase that is shown. Once you have done that, you should be able to post your comment by hitting the "Post Comment" button. This comment was posted using that technique.
How dare you accuse me of such sordid acts, even if I am guilty. Signed: Sidney Rigdon's ghost. Happy Halloween!
ReplyDeleteDo you know what is different between the teachings of Jesus given in the Bible VS the Book of Mormon?
ReplyDeleteAside from what Alexander Campbell wrote in 1831, the teachings have an important difference that he didn't pick up on.
Hi Richard,
ReplyDeleteWell, that's a wide open question. What's your answer?
On another subject, a good friend of mine who hasn't blogged here yet rightfully got on my case for NOT mentioning that my good buddy and co-author Wayne cowdrey also went with me to this year's exmo conference and I believe that he had a great time too. He and I had the privilege of having lunch twice with Craig Criddle and his family and that was a real treat. Craig's research is dynamite too!
Charles Larson also had a great presentation and his books and research are fascinating.
I'm sad to say that I missed Richard Packham's lecture but I hear from others who attended it that it was excellent. At the same time I was pleased to have videotaped Latayne Scott's talk on how to effectively write one's way out of Mormonism, like she had done several years ago. (She also autographed the two books I have of hers.)
I missed some of the other presentation as well, but got into several great conversations with old friends and new ones.
Of course, the documentary was one of the big highlights of the weekend. Entitled, "In the Shadow of the Temple", it told the stories of several people and their struggles to free themselves from Mormonism and what it has const them. Because of other things that were going on, I missed a good portion of it, but what I did see was very moving. I picked up a DVD of the production and suggest that anyone who is interested in the strugggle that these people and others go through should definitely get one as well.
That being said, I still believe that the Ex-Mormon Foundation production called "Line Upon Line" is also excellent and everyone should get a copy of it as well. They can be had from the Ex-Mormon Foundation website or from me, as I have offered to market them for the foundation.
Finally, Richard, Dianne, Sue, Chad, Charles, Jean, Teri, Tom, and so many other friends, thanks so much for making Wayne and me feel right at home as always at the conference.
As for you, ghostie, glad to see you at my blog! Wish you were out here - so many things to discuss.
Dale, I'm looking forward to some of your sage comments and hope that you will share some of them with us soon.
Well folks, that's it for me tonight. The kids get up early and I take them to school.
What is differnt - regarding specific teachings of who we are to hear and obey - the BOM says their prophets and the Bible says Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteI've posted some on apologetics.com on the topic with little acceptance, but after complete study of the teachings of Jesus, it cannot be disputed that we are to hear and obey every commandment and word of Jesus. So LDS are right to say that keeping His commandments is our part of the covenant, the trouble is that they don't abide in His words, but instead hear their prophets words to be the words of Jesus - which has led to all their false and unbiblical doctrines and practices.
So my question is: Why is there not one Church who says their doctrine is to abide in the teachings of Jesus Christ - which He said is the doctrine of God and the disciples said were the words of eternal life?
Richard,
ReplyDeleteIt is when man tries to determine for God what God's commandments are that they get the world in trouble, hence strange religions like Mormonism and others. That being said, I believe that the Protestant sects, for the most part, are fairly accurate in what they teach. I am a Lutheran - a member of the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, which I believe is the best of the Lutheran churches, and one of the best in interpreting Holy Scripture. Does that mean that they are the "one true church" and that all others are apostate? No, just that in my oppinion, they faithfully interpret Scripture and that interpretation is relfected in Lutheran thrology. Any time that man is involved with religion it will be an imperfect thing, but because we have God's Word, we have the truth, and we can compare what man does with what Scripture says, and act accordingly. Based on that, I believe that there are churches that preach God's Word in its truth and purity, especially when compared with Mormonism and the many other distortions of Christianity and the other religions of the world.
Art
Richard,
ReplyDeleteAnother thing comes to mind, namely the fact that we as Christians do not live under the law but are instead governed by God's grace, through the life, death, and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ. Because of that, our relationship has been restored with God, and He now views us through a "Jesus filter", seeing us a holy in His sight because of what Christ has done for us. Being that Jesus won our salvation for us by completely paying for the sin of the whole world, there is literally nothing that we can do to earn our salvation, setting us free from doing all kinds of endless rituals and ordinances, not to mention trying to earn enough celestial "brownie points" to get into heaven. Instead, when we do good works, it is because we want to show the love of Christ to the world and to show what Christ has done for us and is doing through us. This is somethig that the Mormons call "cheap grace" butr as far as I'm concerned, Christ's death on the cross was anything but cheap.
Art
I used to think similarly until immersing into the teachings of Jesus and exersizing at 'rightly dividing the word of truth' which 'word of truth' is surely the teachings of Jesus.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely believe we are to immitate Jesus, as He is also our example of what Man was made to be. How can we abide in all His commandments if we only recognise two? He gave hundreds! The OT had about 600 and I wouldn't doubt that there are that many if they were categorized explicitly. I shy away from that due to Jeremiah, that they are to be written in our minds and on our hearts. So we need to ingest them with the proper purpose in mind and allow the Holy Spirit to bring them to our rememberence, just as Jesus told the disciples He would do.
How can we not will to abide in whatever He said if He is our Lord?
Hi Richard,
ReplyDeleteIt is because when Jesus came to earth to live His perfect life and win our salvation, He established a new covenant - a covenant of grace, not law, so we now live under His grace and not the law and all of its commandments. Does He not say that if we keep all of the law and yet fail in one part, we are then guilty of the whole law? That was the way that man lived in the Old Testament/old covenant. When Christ came, He established the new covenant of grace, namely God's undeserved love for us, that frees us from the law and gives us the opportunity to be sons of God, through the ultimate sacrifice of Christ for us.
Yes, we are to imitate Jesus, as Paul and the other apostles tell us, and through grace and the new covenant, we are able to become imitators of Christ, not bound by the law but by God's boundless love for us.
Art
Yes, we are under a new covenant, and yes, we are not under the law. I tend to look at is as not being 'under the law' but being brought to the point of the mind of Christ as being 'over the law' or surpassing the law in righteousness or benefit or promise or effect on our life. Jesus showed us the heart of the law - what the truth is about what pleases God - the life that God desires us to live and whereby we do find blessing as we abide in His word. Even Peter, in Acts, said that God gives the Holy Spirit to such as obey Him.
ReplyDeleteBut obediance is not an earning salvation thing, as obedience is but what should be expected as our reasonable service that He should expect from us. Hense the 'filthy rags' view that we do need to repent and do good and even though we often stumble and fall and such, that we keep reaching up to the author of our faith, knowing that only He is truely faithful. Thankfully He sees what we can become with Him in our hearts, leading the way through living as He lived and thinking as He thought and seeking to arrive at the point that we have 'the mind of Christ in us'.
I don't care so much about what Church one finds themselves in so much as the fact that no matter where we are we can all do this and be blessed as we willingly seek to abide in Jesus Christ and His teachings...
On the LDS theme though, I still find it odd that whenever I bring up a Scripture that teaches what they're trying to say from other sources, they look at me like I'm a Martian:)
The other week I figured out that their facination with the handcarts era is really about willingness to put your life on the line for a fellow believer - which is really an example of I John 3:16. But don't tell them that:-) They much prefer their own stories:-)
Matthew 5:33-37. Jesus taught that we are not to swear othes to the LORD, basically because of our inability to perform them. We cannot bind God to do what we say, let alone ourselves or anyone else. The conclusion is that we are to let our 'yes be yes, and our no be no' and that 'whatever is more than these is of the evil one.'
ReplyDeletePerhaps the greatest evil to come upon the LDS due to their not abiding in His word are those things that are related to the LDS Temple endowments. They claim the Temple matters as too 'sacred' to discuss, but those who have heard what has gone on there know differently.
For years they swore 'blood oaths' to keep their temple rites secret. As Jesus said, those who want to keep secret what they do will be exposed, and their 'sacred' oaths have long been exposed thanks to those who have finally seen that what is done and taught there is not of the Lord Jesus Christ.
So although one might think their actions noble in some matters, such as the rescue of those stranded without provisions in the winter that I mentioned above, we need to exersize judgement about other actions to see if they are of the Lord or not. The Mountain Meadows Massacre is but one example of the evil that Mormonism can lead to. The accounts of early years also include serious charges against them from the beginnings of their church. Senate Document 189 (available from Utah Lighthouse Ministries) is a reasonable account of some of the events and problems.
With the teachings of Jesus we can see that those who are His will do certain things - which primarily center in love and righteousness that transends the love of brethren to even love our enemies, that we love as God and not as the world does.
Both the words and actions of their prophets show who they consider 'sacred' by their actions and teachings that are not according to Jesus Christ, Moses, or any of the holy prophets of old. They can pretend otherwise, but until they - or for that matter any of us - abide in His words, our faith is not founded on belief of Jesus Christ.
I just checked out Richard Packham's video about the temple. Isn't it odd that Jesus said those who are faithful will be with Him in heaven, yet LDS think that somehow 'secret' handshakes and not drinking caffine are somehow connected to going to heaven or not?:-)
ReplyDeleteYet they have chosen not to investigate His teachings in the Bible as other Christians do.
I don't recall having noticed before that they put on their aprons at the word of Satan. Did I hear that one right?